x264 quality sample

[Elmo]

There was some talk in the threads about introducing x264 or Xvid.
Here is an example of one of my personal encodes i did in x264 it is at 1200kbps which your mpeg-1 videos seem to be in, audio is AAC-LC which is ipod compliant as is x264 though in this encode i don't think it is pretty sure the bitrate is too high or maybe the resolution dunno i think ipods are limited to 640x480, anyway back to the point it is muxed to .mp4 as it's less confusing for people to play it and is also ipod compliant, although i do think matroska .mkv is a much better format and should be promoted, if you can't play the file just download cccp(combined community codec pack) and install it should play in windows media player or whatever just fine then, for mac osx the easiest would be vlc as i'm not familiar with mac osx and vlc sucks in my opinion but will be fine for this. i cropped out black bars in this video as it's just out of habit i always do it, i noticed videopimp seems to leave them in.

I recorded using a dvd recorder straight from t.v, got the file off dvd using dvd decrypter, did encoding from the source to x264 video and AAC-LC audio using megui media encoder and did all cropping and de-interlacing and filtering in there via avisynth script editor in it, i used 2-pass HQ-slower profile at 1200 kbps for x264 and 192kbps for AAC-LC i muxed it using YAMB but for muxing to matroska .mkv i used mkvtoolnix.

I can write a tutorial on encoding to x264 if anyone wants it and any discussion is appreciated.

Here's the file enjoy =] : http://www.uploading.com/files/S7BY8...r_God.mp4.html

[Frenchy]

Ok Elmo here's some tips, I doubt VP will be restricted to iPod limitations. Since 1500kbps at 640x480 would be appauling on most videos.
As for the low bitrate I think when we do encode in XviD we'll would stay as far away from VCD as possible.
And judging your source looks American, and when deinterlaced can look terrible without heaps and heaps of filters.

To make a good sample should something live (since they have heaps of motion and generally are better quality)
And filmed by the station or from country with the same Video Format eg. NTSC or PAL who cares about res.
Frame Rate differences and interlace is where most quality can be lost.

And most editing in megui can lose you some quality if you don't know what you're doing.

Anyway I made an Watermarked XviD sample.
It's of an upcoming VP release (The Kooks - Naive (Abbey Road))
I capture generally MPEG-2 about DVD quality since my drivers have a problem with lossless .avi capture most of the time.

The source was the channel MAX (720x576i 16:9 25fps)
The actual show Abbey Road is shot in HD but scaled down to 720x576 but it's progressive since it's only 25fps, Not 50fields.

Since it's progressive no Deinterlace is needed, so it's already good quality

Download the Sample video HERE

To encode I set up an avisynth script in megui and made my own alterations.
Mainly to add the Donald Graft Logo VirtualDub Filter.
It's manual in avisynth but can be previewed when the .avs script is opened in VirtualDub

I encoded in XviD using A Quantizer encode, Had it set to Quantizer 2 so very little quality loss. The Final bitrate was >3000kbps and looks great.
Audio was just a basic Lame MP3 encode and set to 192kbps.

The Script is used to encode the video looks something like this:

DGDecode_mpeg2source("C:\CAPTURE\2008-07-29\The Kooks - Naive (Live From Abbey Road).d2v")
crop( 10, 4, 8, -2)
function VD_Logo(clip clip, int "x", int "y", int "alpha", bool "transparent",
\ int "xr", int "xg", int "xb", int "tolerance", string "filename",
\ bool "animate", int "start", int "duration", int "loops",
\ int "fadeinlen", int "fadeoutend", int "fadeoutlen")
{
LoadVirtualdubPlugin("C:\virtualdub mod\plugins"
\ +"\logo.vdf", "_VD_Logo", 1)
return clip._VD_Logo(default(x,0), default(y,0), default(alpha,128),
\ default(transparent,true)?1:0, default(xr,0), default(xg,0),
\ default(xb,255),default(tolerance,0), default
\ (filename,"C:\David's Folder\virtualdub mod\plugins\Frenchy Logo.bmp"),
\ default(animate,false)?1:0, default(start,0), default(duration,0),
\ default(loops,0),default(fadeinlen,0),
\ default(fadeoutend,200), default(fadeoutlen,0))
}
ConvertToRGB()
VD_logo(30,500,240,true,0,0,0,10,"C:\virtualdub mod\plugins\Frenchy Logo.bmp",false,320,0,0,25,700,25)
ConvertToYV12()
Spline36Resize(672,384)

See the results for yourself.
Phew!

[Elmo]

My source is european, it looks american because of the amount of cropping on it.

standard defintion t.v is ALWAYS interlaced , only enhanced def 576p and HD 720p and 1080p is progressive so you'll only get progressive from a high definition channel. Unless you misunderstood what you were reading as 50 fields is 25fps, it's just interlaced does 2 fields for every frame, but progressive renders the entire frame at once for each frame.

True the deinterlacing process will give a little quality loss, frame rate differences shouldn't.
I don't really understand how you got a deinterlaced source from standard def t.v, unless you're using a video card to record and it's doing hardware deinterlacing.

Doing a quantizer 2 encode seems rediculous it's just terrible overkill, like 3000kbps =0 that's crazy, x264 will give better results than Xvid and encoding music videos which are only around 5minutes long anyway the extra time shouldn't be too bad.

My encode is almost the same quality as the source i noticed slight blocking on one bit but another 100kbps would've sorted that out, granted my source is pretty much just black&white, but for x264 encoding, video bitrates of 1500 to 1900kbps should definitely suffice, generally i do an AQ (average quality) encode of 18 to roughly find the bitrate i should use for a source, i then do a 2 pass HQ-slower encode using the bitrate i got from AQ or maybe something higher or lower depending on me.

AAC is a much better quality lossy audio format than mp3 so check that out you can use nero encoder which you can install in megui i think there might be others in megui but no sure.

.AVI is a really bad choice of container due to the amount of overhead it creates [Quoted from wikipedia] "There is significant overhead when used with popular MPEG-4 codecs (Xvid and DivX, for example), increasing file size more than necessary. The AVI container has no native support for modern MPEG-4 features like B-Frames" [quoted from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVI#Continued_use ]

Sorry if i sound mean or anything.
Might check out that Donald Graft Logo VirtualDub Filter seems pretty cool with the little logo didn't know you could add things like that with avisynth.

Good encode by the way, albeit just a tad over the top.

Might do an encode of a muse concert they did for MTV2 i have recorded might come out nicer as the Dear God video is kinda blurred and fuzzy as whatever effect they had going for the music video. The muse concert might give a better example although not sure what quality i set the recording at should be fine tho.

If you could give me any info on that Donald Graft Logo VirtualDub Filter or anything that adds visible images or captions or whatever stuff like that, as i only know video optimizing filters in avisynth.

Anyhoo you should try AQ to find a bitrate and using HQ-slower or slowest 2-pass encode, or whatever equivalent is for Xvid, tho if you wanna try out x264 it'd be pretty cool.
AAC is pretty sweet too so check that out too, oh and the .mp4 and .mkv containers.

If you have any questions before you wanna try just let me know =] Good Luck

[Elmo]

Okay the encode of the muse live i've got is too low res for a sample it's like (352x288) MPEG2.

I've got My Chemical Romance live at rock am ring 2007 so i'll do an encode from that i think i'll do I Don't Love You, i've got some Killers live stuff which is good but i'm not doing that coz of the whole universal artists stuff, although my personal encodes wouldn't be affiliated with you so should be okay but still don't wanna get you in hot water,

anyhoo expect My Chemical Romance - I Don't Love You (Rock Am Ring 2007) in x264 pretty soon

[Serch]

which he means by the deinterlaced source is very little deinterlaced, you won't see it when it's playing normally that it has any interlacing frames/fields in it and that applies to most videos that were shot in europe/australia. You could actually blend two fields of each frame together beacuse it's hardly noticable when compared to videos produced in states you get lots of interlacing beacuse of the framerate change, hence ivtc for ntsc sources....

as Frenchy said when we add XViDs we won't make them with the same or just little better quality, they will have to look better which means they will need higher bittrate (beacuse that's what matters for Q).
Avi isnt' best containter but it's most popular after mpeg and it's easily playable.
XViD/x264 differences were discussed in other topic on the forum, i've pointed out there why we'll be switching to XViD rather then x264.

[Elmo]

Okay here it is this is at like 1600kbps video
http://uploading.com/files/VY1ZSYWX/...2007).mp4.html

I think i might do it again and put in the see saw brightening fuction to enhance some detail as the source is quite dark, it should improve it and make it prettier.

I tried out that logo thingy for funsies, i couldn't find a full explanation of how to use it anywhere so i just figured it out from looking at yours.

I cut it out of a large file so that explains the huge frame numbers in the trim script, i had to cut the audio by making a cut file and putting in the same frame numbers and it worked out quite nicely anyhoo here is my script.

DGDecode_mpeg2source("C:\DVD_VR\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1. d2v",info=3)
ColorMatrix(hints=true,interlaced=true)
Load_Stdcall_Plugin("C:\Program Files\megui\tools\yadif\yadif.dll")
Yadif(order=1)
crop( 8, 36, -12, -36)


function VD_Logo(clip clip, int "x", int "y", int "alpha", bool "transparent",
\ int "xr", int "xg", int "xb", int "tolerance", string "filename",
\ bool "animate", int "start", int "duration", int "loops",
\ int "fadeinlen", int "fadeoutend", int "fadeoutlen")
{
LoadVirtualdubPlugin("C:\virtualdub mod\plugins"
\ +"\logo.vdf", "_VD_Logo", 1)
return clip._VD_Logo(default(x,0), default(y,0), default(alpha,128),
\ default(transparent,true)?1:0, default(xr,0), default(xg,0),
\ default(xb,255),default(tolerance,0), default
\ (filename,"C:\Users\8D\Pictures\Graeme's Pictures\Elmologo3.bmp"),
\ default(animate,false)?1:0, default(start,0), default(duration,0),
\ default(loops,0),default(fadeinlen,0),
\ default(fadeoutend,200), default(fadeoutlen,0))
}
ConvertToRGB32()
VD_logo(70,500,240,true,0,0,255,60,"C:\Users\8D\Pi ctures\Graeme's Pictures\Elmologo3.bmp",false,20916,0,0,25,21080,2 5)
ConvertToYV12()

LanczosResize(704,464) # Lanczos (Sharp)
Undot() # Minimal Noise

Trim(20916,26654)

I use Lanczos sharpen as there is always softening during the encoding process so that makes up for it and undot for minimal noise as just doing that little bit gives better compression without really effecting the finishing quality.

Might have a SeeSaw brightening function one up soon.

Might do Linkin Park live at rock am ring 2007 soon as that seems like a good source

[Elmo]

ah right i looked that up now, overlooked that post.
mhmm standalone players are only just starting to support x264 now, and it could be a little confusing for computer illiterate people although cccp sorts out everything for windows, vlc goes for apple computers and ubuntu will let you know and you just push a button and it downloads what's needed for you.

Anyhoo, i'll look into Xvid encoding. I'm just worried about you going too over the top with bitrates, as >3000kbps is just rediculous.

ah right i didn't know that about u.s t.v am in europe myself so never came across that.

i really don't think .avi is the way you guys should be going. Matroska is very out there as opposed to .mp4 which most systems should support, although Xvid seems to mess up when i create raw asp and try to mux to mp4 for me but i'm not used to encoding Xvid more used to x264.

Higher Bitrates will give higher qualities of course but with x264 and Xvid once bitrates reach a certain point the increase in quality becomes negligible and optimization of these formats give much better results at lower bitrates than what was attainable with mpeg-1.

good luck adding Xvid but down over do bitrates, looking at how i can only get .mp4 Xvid to work in vlc you'd probably be better off sticking to more compatible codecs like mkv, but if you must avi

do keep in mind x264 as a codec in the future as it does seriously kickass =]

[Elmo]

Did a .avi Xvid encode of Billy talent surrender video as the source was so pretty. the audio is 192kbps cbr mp3. Xvid video i gave to aim for 1800kbps in megui but it ended up giving me 2242kbps, dunno why it's usually on the button with x264 encoding but i'm sure it'll be sorted out. It's about 1000kbps less than the other Xvid encode but still great quality and i'm sure the quality would still be great at lower bitrates. anyhoo i did some screenshots for comparison with the source so you can see what it's like.
The result got slightly stretched by the resizing cropping process but looks good nonetheless, in one of the images you can see lines in the source due to the bit of interlacing but you can see the deinterlaced result with the xvid result. Will upload the Xvid file tomorrow so you can actually view it.

Source1


Xvid Encode1


Source2


Xvid Encode2

[Elmo]

Source3


Xvid Encode3


Source4


Xvid Encode4

[Elmo]

Source5


Xvid Encode5



Xvid file download coming soon =]

[Elmo]

I figured out why there was such a huge difference between the 1800kbps i designated for the encode and the 2242kbps i got; there was about 400kbps added by AVI overhead which increased the file size a whole lot more than it needed to be this is why i am opposed to AVI, MKV would be much better as would MP4 but i can't seem to get MP4 to give an output i can play through ffdshow directshow by using MeGui it will only play in vlc whereas MKV will play no matter what, i'm sure i'll be able to figure that one out though.

but the result is the bitrate of this Xvid video is in fact 1800kbps it just has a huge overhead,

Sample will be uploaded soon!

[Elmo]

Here's the Billy Talent Surrender Xvid .avi sample at 1800kbps video 192 kbps mp3 audio and ~400kbps .avi overhead

http://uploading.com/files/95J4UMIA/...ender.avi.html

[Elmo]

Nevermind that about the huge overhead. Xvid encoding just seems not to follow the bitrate i designate as i did an MP4 encode with the same setting with megui and checked the bitrates after with avinaptic and it was the same the average bitrate encoding must be a little weird in Xvid anyway with the Xvid overhead after everything it only added about 2MB to the avi file as opposed to the mp4 file which isn't too bad considering the file was about 70MB.

So yeah you should probably stick to Xvid in AVI with mp3 audio for compatibility at this stage as mp4 seems to mess up and mkv might confuse someone.

x264 in mkv with AAC-LC is a much better format but there's bound to be one person with that who can't understand why you can't just click it and it work and that you have to download a little thingy for it.

Anyhoo i'm gonna fiddle around with profiles in MeGui to see how i can get it to give back accurate bitrates

[Elmo]

I got bitrate defined Xvid working and did an encode of the same source with the same script but using 1000kbps Xvid encoding.
Here it is:http://uploading.com/files/5DQEC396/...r%202.avi.html


Samples to compare with source and 2200kbps Xvid
I got these samples by matching the frames by eye so they might be a little bit off.

1000kbps Xvid Encode1


1000kbps Xvid Encode2


1000kbps Xvid Encode3


1000kbps Xvid Encode4


1000kbps Xvid Encode5

[Elmo]

I hope by comparing the qualities of these encodes you should see that you don't require such huge bitrates.

I always use Lanczos sharpen and at least minimal noise reduction on my encodes as they increase compressability for encoding whilst the output remains pretty much identical